Tyrmand: Anyone who quotes Michnik cannot be taken seriously

Spotkanie z Tyrmandem: http://dorzeczy.pl/id,7935/Spotkanie-z-Tyrmandem-w-Klubie-Ronina.html

Marcin Makowski: Jackson Diehl, one of the leading "The Washington Post" journalists, that’s working in the newspaper since 1978, recently wrote an article in which he shows his fears of the "Polish turning to the right". In the same time, almost word for word he’s repeated the arguments of our mainstream media. What do you think, how this amazing coincidence of narrative happens?
 
Matthew Tyrmand: Quite simply I do not think this guy wrote the article. Maybe he put the words into structured sentences but my feeling is that this is an Anne Applebaum special behind the scenes “correspondent’s report”. All of her “fingerprints” and talking points, and that of the PO bought and paid for mainstream media, are here both in the way the attacks are made and in the unmitigated use of hyperpartisian lies, manipulations, and innuendo and the material omissions of integral facts. The amount of times anti-Semitism is thrown around, even as Poland is far and away the best country in Europe to be Jewish in these days (no Islamo-fascist and apologetic political correctness present helps), is incredible to me. It is a bankrupt argument that reflects how desperate they are after being rejected both in governing and in their corrupt philosophy. Another example is the lens which Diehl (and the other recent articles in NY Times, The Hill, The Economist, and now on Fareed Zakaria’s CNN show- all with the same Applebaum talking points) addresses the Death and the Maiden / Glinski dust up. There is a sales pitch here that the new right-of-center government is comprised of reactionary fascists and is autocratic in its every move and with the theater play they are allegedly undermining free expression. All Glinski is suggesting  in reality is that the theatre is funded by the citizens of Poland who have just tacked rightward and  the Cultural Ministry is asserting its rights and is within its power to withhold funding for the production. To the high minded entitled elite leftists of the Gazeta Wyborcza crowd this is wrong that the taxpayer will not pay for their “art.” Then the way in which the TVP reporter “Lewica” (Lewicka) was handled (a suspension for her embarrassment of an interview that was more like a debate with no rules was too lenient a reaction in my mind) was enough for this cabal of Applebaumians to suggest now that there exists in the “new Poland” active media censorship. (The real media censorship was the civil suits against PO critics and harassment and surveillance of right of center journalists and the lack of a right of center voice in mainstream press for all these last years.) Of course they know this example with this idiot “journalist” is nothing of the sort but the truth and the opportunity they can create to hurt the reputation of the new government (and in turn: Poland) need not ever be reconciled. Truth, nor what’s best for Poland, matters not much to the self-interested leftist political class. And of course the ends (them regaining power) justifies the means (assassinating the characters of their enemies). As former Obama Chief of Staff and now Chicago Mayor (and all around bad guy) Rahm Emanuel says: "You never let a serious crisis go to waste." I think Applebaum and Rahm would be good friends if they are not already.
 
 
Diehl is a colleague of Anne Applebaum from their Warsaw period. You said many times that it was she - who you called a "queen of bullshit" - along with Radoslaw Sikorski, that are hostile to the Polish right-wing politics. Do you think that Applebaum is sending this kind of vibe and narrative to the American press? Do you have any evidence of that?
 
As I suggest above.Yes. Absolutely without doubt. I think that everything that is happening in Western media with regard to Poland and the new government is by design. First the usual Poland watchers start putting out these libels and lies. Keep in mind these are all friends of Applebaum or those in this same political/philosophical circle who have been very involved with and supportive of PO and Brussels. Edward Lucas is the big fish (which means he is fishy by definition). He gets all his Polish “intelligence” from the “queen” herself as they are well acknowledged to be friends (and he is friends with her husband the court jester as well- one needs to look at his coverage of PiS in the past years Sikorski was affiliated there to see how he follows Radek). Henry Foy, Jan Cienski, etc as well are running out the same pabulum in Europe for the FT and Politico respectively (Matt Kaminski also in Politico shares their Eurocentric world view). Then it goes to America to a smaller venue by a nobody (Bartkowski) in a wonky paper, The Hill, meant to influence the American political class. Then via Diehl, in an opinion piece in the very same paper she writes for, the Washington Post, it gets wider circulation in the US. Then the NYT prints everything asserted in the column in WaPo as incontrovertible fact using the WaPo’s framing of each issue introduced as the complete story. Then it gets maximum exposure by Fareed Zakaria on CNN (which although it is a news platform is generally wrong and fraudulent in its reporting and always pushing a leftist political agenda- it does garner much, albeit misplaced, respect). The WaPo and the NY Times set up rumors and conjecture to become generally accepted fact because its validated when they can say: "see, it's in the newspaper and on CNN." I can guarantee that all these “news” people are not getting their information from the Jan Kowalskis on the ground.
 
In a similar vein about Poland also writes Edward Lucas (The Economist) and Henry Foy (The Financial Times). In your last column, you noticed that things are going further than just defiance of the current political situation in Poland. Dr. Maciej Bartkowski, an influential teacher of Polish descent went so far as to issue a political appeal, entitled: "The US Congress: Keep an eye on Polish in the hands of the Kaczynski". What is the long term goal of this type of action?

Bartkowski is influential? You could have fooled me. Anyone who quotes Michnik cannot be taken seriously as Michnik has two agendas- Eurocentric socialism and keeping govt money flowing into his dying media business.

The long term goal is the delegitimization of this past election where Poland shifted to the right of the so called "center right" party and coalition of leftists led by PO. It was a clear rejection and rebuke of them personally and their philosophy- this they have trouble stomaching. If they can insert their talking points into the DC and Brussels conversations they expect that they (the corrupted and biased media complex and academic philosopher kings and queens of the "elite" left that believes in “more government”- and “more Europe”- is always the answer) can remain relevant in the debate and can maintain credibility setting themselves up for a recapture of power in the future. I have faith in Poles on the ground, and like Americans with respect to Obama, they are rejecting these academic utopian fantasies of the left in a big way. The election is proof of this as are, similarly, the last couple of congressional elections in the US where the right controls Congress, more state Governorships, and state legislatures than any time in a 100 years.

Similar, unfavorable foreign comments of right-wing Poland are being threatened by our media as tailor-made ideological weapon. "The Washington Post commented," "The German daily wrote” – you can hear it all the time. We even call it "echoes from abroad". Why do you think this kind of arguments” are on the rise?

Because it's all they have. It is a self reinforcing narrative validation. The people reject these hare brained and corrupting philosophies so the proponents and perpetrators of these ideological frauds against free people go to their sycophantic echo chamber for reinforcement and validation. But we are all wise to it. It's no surprise that Radek's and Ania's chums from Oxford, Harvard, LSE, DC, Brussels, etc embrace the same arguments and then quote EACH OTHER to try to sell them. The people have wised up to this tautology- this sale of circular logic. The Internet forces transparency upon them and their connections and affiliations whether they like it or not. Like the printing press many centuries ago- new levels of information flow are allowing truth to proliferate.

How often do you find in the Financial Times or the NYTimes articles entitled "China concerned about Donald Trump," or "The German weekly demands clarification on US climate policy"?

For me not very much as I do not read much of what they print. Only if i happen to catch something in passing when walking my dog in Chicago and picking up after him- I use the ny times a lot for dog poop pick up as the quality of paper is perfect for this job. The words on the paper don't have this level of use though. Fortunately, capitalism is about multi-purpose usage.
 
You once said that if you want to write the truth in Polish media, you have to do in the tabloid. On the other hand, the biggest of them, "Fakt" is in the hands of the German company Axel Springer Ringer. Don’t you think that these two things conflict a little bit?

Well my first professional association with writing columns in Poland was with Superexpress and I still contribute there semi-regularly. The reason i went there is that as a tabloid their main goal is to entertain and sell papers. So as long as I write things that people want to read they will print the columns. That is democratic. The gatekeeper is essentially the tastes of the masses. They give the people what they want even if the elites disdain the "low brow" content. Personally I find capitalism beautiful in its efficient allocation of resources and in giving people what they want to consume. And profits are not low brow in my opinion. Profits allow businesses to grow and jobs to be created and (sadly all too much) taxes to be paid so that the elites can reallocate from the productive class to the parasitic class- like to the many outlets that they consider "high brow" whether that is Gazeta Wyborcza or the European council of foreign relations type think tanks or such as "art" like the “Death and the Maiden” pornography. Writing in SuperExpress has been great in that I can discuss the politics of the day in the way I see fit and apparently the columns resonate because I am able to continue to write them. I have been treated very fairly by SE.

I cannot say the same thing about Agora media properties where only journalists and news items that fit their predetermined narrative can make it into their pages. We all know their political bias as they do not even pretend to be impartial. I can cite my own experience in demonstrating their lack of impartiality. When I was promoting my book "Jestem Tyrmand, Syn Leoopolda" I did an interview and an accompanying web video with Duży Format. It was very popular and the DF editors wanted to produce more of these video interviews while walking around neighborhoods in Warsaw important to my father's history. That was until I endorsed Gowin and condemned the OFE pension nationalization. Then all plans were off and not only were the future interviews discussed canceled but I heard, albeit third hand from my contact there, that I would never appear in their pages again because I was "too political" and they "don't do politics." Of course this is laughable as I opened up the DF from that week and all I saw was articles with political overtones (EU "progress", green regulations, public sector supported art installations, etc.). So evidently it was my politics that were unpalatable not just that I was political by nature. And up until a couple of weeks ago they remained true to their word I have never been mentioned again in or by any Agora media property (besides syndicated PAP releases their staffers do not write). Recently a geriatric columnist, Janusz Anderman, wrote a hit piece on me, likely at Michnik’s behest. It was pretty poor with silly little digs like only referring to me as “Son of Tyrmand.” As my father used to say, I don’t care what they write as long as they spell my name right.” Of course he was blacklisted so that was the ultimate effective weapon by the media mandarin of the time, and still remains so. I appreciate Michnik/Anderman writing a piece on me in this last year before they go bankrupt.

With respect to Fakt and Axel Springer, yes there are issues with foreign ownership of media but if there is a level playing field where Polish media can compete with multinational entities than that issue is mitigated. But as we see with Agora having received so much in government support as a consumer, advertiser, and in bail out capital from PZU- the competition is not free and open. So with that and with multinationals getting preferential treatment (mostly in tax treatment but also in court decisions when Axel Springer is not always expedient in their payment of judgements against them and holding them liable for what they have printed as opposed to SE which is held to a different and tougher standard because they are domestically based) I do perceive some issues with Axel Springers (and Burda and others) position in Poland- but not simply because they are a foreign entity. There are many great multinationals doing business in Poland and elsewhere that are responsible in the way in which they do business here. But there needs to be one set of rules for all (the opposite of the way in which PO governed and legislated).This is key to open and fair competition and brings out the best in every competitor for people’s attention and purchasing power.

In your speech at the Institute of World Politics, you did notice that in the American Constitution there is a record not only for the glorification of free speech and a free media, but above all for their protection. The Polish constitution lacks this kind of protections. How would you defend media pluralism in practice?

 This is the number one issue I fight for (outside economics and market orientated issues) and it was my father's most important issue as well as he spent his life fighting censors- in Wilno (arrested by NKVD early on in the war) and Warsaw and then in the U.S. as the American media was hijacked by the far left in the late 1960s. You cannot have a free society, and thus a prosperous society, without totally unfettered free speech, expression, and press. Expression can pertain to religion, clothing (as my father demonstrated), art/culture (free expression is not be conflated with taxpayer subsidized expression though), and mostly speech even outside press (such as the electoral silence law which is a brazen abrogation of the rights of a free people). It is not a coincidence that a recent McKinsey study showed that GDP and economic growth are highly linearly correlated with free press (which is the most easily measured metric of free speech because it is institutional and thus more easily tracked). Look at Turkey- as the press freedom expanded so did the economy. Now under Erdogan, who has clamped down and jailed critical journalists (and tried to roll back Ataturk pluralism and supplant it with contemporary Middle Eastern Islamism), the economic growth has been steadily receding. Same goes with Russia. Without the full freedom to speak and think and express oneself innovation is also stifled. Innovation is a product of exercising ones freedom to think and create and produce and to execute on those “outside the box” thoughts. The derivative effects of clamping down on freedom of expression are pernicious. It's not coincidental as well that in America, with the very first amendment of the constitution being dedicated to protecting these natural rights of freedom given to all humans by a higher power ("endowed by our creator with certain inalienable rights; life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" as the formal codified document states) that America has been the center of innovation for going on almost 200 years (and the previous center of innovation that catalyzed the Industrial Revolution was England- also a society that was living under codified constitutional republicanism for many years with great protections built into society during both the enlightenment and the Scottish enlightenment in liberal economics). Poland needs this codified protection of free speech, expression, and press. When idiots with despotic tendencies like Giertych can sue everyone for criticism and that case will be heard- that is not only troubling but it is deleterious to Poland's development. In the Zenger trial that took place in 1730’s colonial era New York, a newspaper printer named John Peter Zenger was sued by a provincial royal governor (Wiliam Cosby) for libel for printing (not even writing it himself, and he kept the writers anonymous- never giving up his source) something verifiably true but damaging about the Governor’s brazen corruption. But the jury of his peers found him not guilty as they reasoned that the truth is an absolute defense and Zenger was vindicated in printing these “libelous” claims (in those days any criticism of government was considered libel, kind of like Poland of the last 8 years- suits against Wprost prove that this injustice was the case). This precedent helped define the first amendment and what would really constitute defamation. So the moral of this story is that if you don't want to be damaged in the press, (especially as a public official) then don't do bad shit. And if you do you can defend yourself in the public discourse. Not in a court of law that if it would hear such a case is probably not working towards justice anyway. Defamation can only be litigable if the defendant knowingly says something false with intent to damage reputationally or financially. Otherwise it is called criticism and should be 100 percent permissible. Especially when it comes to public officials who self-select themselves into positions of great power and responsibility (that offers them opportunities for grafting the taxpayer)- they especially need to defend themselves and their records against criticism with speech and writing- not frivolous lawsuits where their friends can rule in their favor stifling the free expression of free people.
 
 
Repeatedly you  issued the fact that the average Pole is in no way protected if his challenging in public, for example a corrupt politician. He may sue him for libel, and the process, the cost and time do not provide equal opportunities for the accused and accusee. You did throw the challenge yourself to Radosław Sikorski, calling him a financial cheater, for which on behalf of the Foreign Minister Roman Giertych wanted to sue you. What you are taught about the Polish political class and freedom of speech from that incident?
 
This is precisely the point. Those with political power have the ability to step on the necks of those free citizens that call them out. The job of the politician is to be accountable to those he serves- the public, the people, the citizenry. When he/she can use the civil justice system to squelch criticism it sets up what we have seen in Poland the last 8 years- corrupt actors in government looting the state and maintaining an impenetrable level of unaccountability, which then only further bolsters more corruption. Without an engaged media and citizenry- often working in tandem and informing each other- calling out the corruption without fear of the civil “justice” reprisal that comes from having to go to court and defend oneself against frivolous lawsuits that can lead to financial penalties, reputational damage, loss of business, etc. it creates a huge disincentive to holding politicians accountable. All criticism but especially criticism of public office holders (both elected and appointed) needs to be protected and the only way to do that is with a first amendment as discussed above. It is also another reason mainstream media (which is frequently on the take of government money) decides it’s more prudent financially and politically to roll over and spin for the political class rather than do honest investigative journalism. This is why what Wprost did in publishing the transcripts of the tapes scandal / aferatosmowa was so revolutionary and had so much impact. And the business suffered for it as exposing the looters of PO was not going to be met without reprisal. Not surprisingly first class douchebag Roman Giertych was also leading the charge against Wprost/Point Media/Lisiecki. Romek was Sikorski’s gun of choice in threatening to go after me when I called out “Zdradek” for paying his friend Charles Crawford to proof his speeches an ungodly sum of money (of course not competitively bid or procured- as I see with my NGO in Chicago www.openthebooks.com- no bid contracts are one of the most basic levels of government corruption). Unfortunately it became clear pretty quickly that this was an act of bluster out of this fearsome duo to try and intimidate me and shut me up. Despite Giertych’s public comment to the effect that I would be served papers we all knew he had no case- I was in NYC on an American website in English protected by the first amendment expressing an opinion on something that actually happened. These defamation suits are anti-democratic and ultimately an amended constitution will have to have real strong unfettered free expression for Poland to expand its freedom and prosperity. The electoral silence nonsense law, which serves to give a little extra edge to incumbents in theory, also needs to be eradicated on the same premise that it is a restriction of freedom that weakens those who want liberty and strengthens those who want to continue tyrannizing (or stealing from) a free people.

In your opinion, there is no such thing as "hate speech", while the Polish mainstream media has no more sacred war than fighting the "haters". Do you think "hate" became a convenient excuse today to block public debate? Or maybe there is no ethos in being dumbass on the web?
 
What is hate? It cannot be universalized. It is different for everybody. So who gets to determine what crosses over from offensive speech to hateful speech. I believe all speech is instructive. And if you want to fight hate then speak more good ideas vs. “the haters’” bad ideas. By terming certain things hate speech and then criminalizing it there is an ever more slippery slope that more things become hate speech, more things determined by those who have the power to legislate and want to stifle criticism. I found it hilarious that Giertych referred to my calling Sikorski’s actions fraudulent as “hate speech.” Fuck yeah it is! I hate Sikorski’s corruption so I expressed myself in as hateful a way as I could muster. That is speech. Speech exists precisely to communicate and make points. HATE SPEECH IS GREAT SPEECH!! Only when it is confronted head on can bad undercurrents in society be weakened through education and discourse. You want to eradicate racism? (Probably will never happen because human beings are flawed….original sin and all. And they are naturally distrustful of people not like them. This is human nature.) It will not be done by criminalizing it. Then it will only be strengthened since when you ban something in the open a black market grows and thrives. Neo nazi movements thrive where speech is criminalized. It gives those filled with hate more ammo to fight even harder. When paternalists tell people that something is verboten there is always a material segment of society that wants to test that (I, for one, am one of those people). The line exists for the law to step in at physical violations of someone’s body (violence) and not maintaining respect for private property/upholding contracts. Not speech. Speech needs to remain 100% free. Even if the enlightened leadership in our “progressive” societies does not like the way certain words sound. I am happy to tell them to take their speech codes and shove it up their collective asses.
 
In what way Poland can defend itself from unfavorable narrative flowing from the foreign media? Can and should Poland fight, argue, respond tit for tat?
 
Write, speak, defend. If I were Macierewicz I would sue Jackson Diehl from the Washington Post for his allegation that he is a virulent anti Semite. That is defamatory because it is brazenly not true and is meant to cause harm with the knowledge that it is false or the lack of proof to validate it. I would also have the new Polish government write a letter to the editors of WaPo, NY Times, Economist, etc signed by leadership (Kaczynski, Duda, Szydlo, Waszczykowski) disclosing all the untruths, lies, manipulations, etc that has been embedded in these recent mainstream press pieces orchestrated by the Bad Apple. I personally am writing non-stop rebuttals to the propaganda pieces orchestrated by Applefraud and her cabal of liars who have shown they would happily destroy Poland’s image around the globe to prove a point that without them retaining power….”look at how the place falls apart.” Granted the place is doing just fine, a lot less corruption for one thing. Their writing is all nonsense and most people in Poland see the media spin. I will do what I can to vocalize it in the west and I spend a lot of time in Washington DC talking to people who knew “Radek and Anka” way back in the day and think they are great freedom fighters for a better Poland. I have had many conversations with big figures in government, think tanks, and media about the kleptocracy that they were an integral part of. Just last week I was at an event with Peggy Noonan (WSJ editorialist and former Reagan speech writer) and I mentioned I am in Poland frequently and she asked if I knew her friends Anne Applebaum and Radek Sikorski. I answered in the affirmative that I was more than a little familiar with their work and proceeded to break it down from octopus to lody to defamation suits and the media propaganda machine Applefraulein runs like und Commandant. Ms. Noonan was blown away and did not look pleased. I have seen her since and she has not looked happy to see me. Oh well. Truth’s a bitch.
 
 
The first weeks of the rule of PiS are ideal fuel for organizing transferred to the press and television hysteria. In the same breath they speak about the attack on democracy and dictatorship of Kaczynski. Maybe if the biggest Polish and foreign media in this regard are consistent, we should start to fear?
 
PiS needs to do what voters tapped them to do. Clean up the spoils system, pay to play, self-dealing of PO. And shaking out the government funded media is the first step. These back door hires of the previous government covered up every scandal. That makes them complicit. I would fire every single person in these complexes and stop bailing out Agora, stop spending money on advertisements in what should be a media that competes for private sector business, not public sector business. The government has been crowding out competitive forces in the economy for far too long. I would love to see SOE’s privatized and then their massive ad budgets would not be such political tools for favoritism and cronyism. In a competitive market place the closest Olejnik would get to the news business would be selling papers at one of those little newsstands, like one of those babcias I get my Superexpress and Gazeta Polska Codziennie from. And Lis, who may have supplanted Michnik as the most annoying obnoxious person in a nation of almost 40mm, would be shining shoes by the bathroom of the Warsaw Marriott (ground floor, past the couches in the main lounge….good spot for him).  Who would replace these revolting media elites? I would prefer to see competition for the positions rather than appointments and friendly hires but I know that is wishful thinking at this stage of the post-PO reformation. And to be honest- anything is better than what was going on before in the Polish media.
 
How do you think, where will Poland be for four years, on the threshold of new elections? Can PiS govern successfully in massive attack and the reluctance of Europe, which called Hungary and Poland "worse than ISIS"?

I think it’s going to be a tough slog. I do believe the economy globally, led by Europe and China, is entering a recession and Poland will not be immune this time. The economic policies of PiS leave a lot to be desired and will minimize any immunity that the Polish economy might have had (PO policy, mostly the policy of self-interested corruption, led to a deceleration of growth as I wrote about in Forbes last year) but proposed PiS policies and growth of government will not make things any smoother. A lot hinges on the economy and in the near term things do not look rosy to me but I do believe 4 years of PiS cleaning out the institutionalized corruption of their predecessors will set up Poland for superior growth for the next generation after this coming recession. As long as PiS keeps the focus on their best quality- their honesty and interest in doing what is right for Poland (and with this in mind I do believe Jaroslaw K. deserves to be a part of a lot of big decisions as he is legitimately honest and always has Poland’s best interests at heart). I believe they may be able to retain power for many years and I hope this is borne out. I am very bullish on their attitude to both the West and the East- they are leery of Brussels and they are worried about Russia. Those are both prudent sentiments and I am glad to see it. What is best for Poland is not what Brussels wants. And Poland can drive NATO policy regarding Russia. When the White House goes back to the Republicans next year (either Trump or Cruz in my estimation- and most likely Cruz) PiS will be a great partner and ally to a resurgent federal level American right. As of this writing Republicans have the highest concentration of power seen in America in about a century with 31 of 50 governor’s mansions and 68 of 98 state legislative chambers- this is a leading indicator. We in America are also totally sick of leftist lunacy and the pendulum is thankfully, finally swinging back….a self- correction mechanism presciently described by Alexis de Tocqueville in his 1835 classic Democracy in America.